well I do know that you can find posts on the water fowl forums where guys had breasted out or skinned their geese and found pellets in breast meat and in the wing bones that were so old they had cysts growing around them.. I've even seen pics of wing bones with pellets lodged in them and the bone grew over the pellet.

I can't really dispute the argument one way or the other.. I don't do autopsies on my crows, to find out which ones died from a panic attack.

 

As for Bob A. ... nothing he does surprises me. I do believe someone mentioned this site.. over there... and he deleted the post.

 

watch em fall wrote:

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That is why I like to hear peoples ideas,opinions and advice. You never know when you can learn more!!!

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 Agree 100%

I do believe in the theory of the nerve shock killing simply because I have skinned enough hares, shot with a shotgun, that had the pellets right under the skin. When you pulled the skin off, the pellets just fell out from under the first layer of skin. They did not even penetrate the meat. The hares/foxes could not possibly have died from injury to vital organs. Sure, some shots are lethal for the animal. Some go right through it, my first fox was shot with a powerfull 4mm Cartridge at under 20ft. The pellets went through the fox. But that is not the usual case. We all know the story of the ONE pellet penetrating the brain of the pheasent, pigeon, duck or crow. I consider them a lucky shot. Most are not that lucky. They get hit by one or two pellets and may survive but more likely don't. I also noticed that sometimes when you have not killed the animal (easiest to see on hares because you can see that it was hit) at the first shot (with too few pellets), the shock reaction is gone. THEN they get really hard to kill and have to be "hot dead" s in killed by injury. I've seen it too often to doubt it.
 
When I get new shotgun shells I always test them on cardboard with diffent chockes at various distances. If the pattern is satisfactory my next test is for power of penetration (well yes, I do like to get both effects :). It also gives you an indication how much power your cartridge has at different distances...). I shoot at a phone book to see how deep the pellets penetrate. Knowing that your gear (gun and cartridge) works well together is crucial for me. No animal deserves to be shot at without the best chance to be killed on the spot. It also gives ME confidence when shooting with a shotgun. And I think we all agree that there is nothing worse than that nagging doubt in your head when you have made a "good shot" but the bird/hare did not respond as was expected. The next shot you take is accompanied by doubt in the gear and it all goes downhill from there.
 
For me it's pattern over power. For crows/foxes (and other vermin that I do not intend to eat) however it's pattern AND power ;)

I don't. But if the pellet won't penetrerate the flesh, am I wrong to assume, that it will not have penetrated the bones in the skull! Plus, if you get a clear headshot you can tell by the animals reaction because they tend to " jump and jerk" for a while even though they are already dead.

We use shotguns in the US too. At 25 to 30 yards 00 buckshot will penetrate the vital organs. I don't believe there is anything to death by multiple wounds that barely break the skin otherwise #9 shot would work on everything.

At the end of the day one has to shoot what he's confident with. With that nagging feeling of doubt between the ears because you don't trust the ammo, you won't even hit the target. Shotgun shootingstarts and ends with confidence, the rest is details. Ps: IMHO :)